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photoblogging albums

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photoblogging albums

Postby EdB » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:17 am

split from viewtopic.php?p=6769#p6769
SusanG wrote:... So if we come up with at least one each theme in terms of layout and design (maybe even two one dark/one light) can you PHP Dragon wizards come up with the code to make the photoblog function with albums instead of just the index page? ...

Please explain what you mean. Like, where a visitor clicks to get what, and how that ties back to a human user uploading images and so forth. For example would a category be an album and you want to see thumbs like the fancy index page only for just one cat?

SusanG wrote:... It sounds like Ed's got at least two templates, the Nifty one and the 3 col one that already installs with QP ...
Nope. Just the one in this branch now - nifty_colors. I hate evocamp. Total shit template. Very popular though, so we now know more about my taste... Anyway a 3-col would be cool for suggested widgets so we can get the "Sidebar 2" widgets out of core.
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Re: templates from that other app

Postby SusanG » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:43 pm

EdB wrote:Please explain what you mean. Like, where a visitor clicks to get what, and how that ties back to a human user uploading images and so forth. For example would a category be an album and you want to see thumbs like the fancy index page only for just one cat?



I'm going to make a stab at this working from the User up to what the Visitor sees

USER SEES

Photoblog installs with a default album with some sample photos

in BLOG SETTINGS / FILES add another option CREATE ALBUM which kicks off the next set of options: Naming Album, etc, to Creating the album, Uploading files to and eventually Publishing the album.

Note: UPLOAD can default to the preinstalled default album, but as the User creates new albums the album Name gets added to the list

CATEGORIES can be used much like TAGS, just an added extra bit to help in any Search functions we may see to include

OPTIONS can include designating an album to be the default display on the Front End (perhaps making the default installed album that default to start)



FRONT END

The visitor sees the content(s) of the default/display album

INDEX can become something like "ALL PHOTOS" and perhaps add another link next to it that says ... ALBUMS

Note: I know this all kicks off a set of tasks related to file management, etc. but it would make the photoblog sing! And most of the core functions are already in the template


BELLS & WHISTLES (things to think about adding)

Kimberly's EXIF feature as a plugin
A lightbox plugin


*IMPORTANT* We need a better name then Photoblog :)
say goodnight Gracie!
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Re: templates from that other app

Postby EdB » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:03 pm

This might look mean-spirited but if I just ask "but what is an album" again I'd be in the same boat. So here goes an attempt at explaining via inlines why I still don't understand how an album is anything other than a category with a different name.
SusanG wrote:USER SEES
Photoblog installs with a default album with some sample photos

But I still don't know what an album is. It currently installs with a default category with some sample photos.

SusanG wrote:in BLOG SETTINGS / FILES add another option CREATE ALBUM which kicks off the next set of options: Naming Album, etc, to Creating the album, Uploading files to and eventually Publishing the album.

So an album is a plugin? Or do all blogs have "create album" that kick off extra bits? Or it is something like workflow (which should be a plugin but is inherited core)? It could be like workflow - core that not everyone wants or uses - but I still don't know how "album" differs from "blog" or "category". So far all I see is that it is a folder in the blog's media location. Or possibly a folder in the user's media directory. Or possibly a folder in the shared media directory.

SusanG wrote:Note: UPLOAD can default to the preinstalled default album, but as the User creates new albums the album Name gets added to the list
See this is why I'm not getting clarity. You keep saying "album" is if it is defined but it isn't. As a user creates new blogs they get added to a list of blogs. Same with cats, same with tags, same with folders in media paths: everything a user creates gets added to a list somewhere, and most of those lists become ways to organize the content on the public side.

SusanG wrote:CATEGORIES can be used much like TAGS, just an added extra bit to help in any Search functions we may see to include

OPTIONS can include designating an album to be the default display on the Front End (perhaps making the default installed album that default to start)
Well, a category is an absolute requirement, but tags are completely optional. You can not have an item without a category, and a category can be set to "default cat", so I'm back to "an album sounds like a category to me".

SusanG wrote:FRONT END
The visitor sees the content(s) of the default/display album
I'm pretty sure the same can be said of a default category, although possibly not for the "mediaidx.php" file.

SusanG wrote:INDEX can become something like "ALL PHOTOS" and perhaps add another link next to it that says ... ALBUMS
Well, index.php is the post displayer. I'm guessing you mean that "mediaidx.php" file that shows all the thumbnails? So we need "the thumbnail file" to be able to do all albums/cats or a single album/cat?

SusanG wrote:Note: I know this all kicks off a set of tasks related to file management, etc. but it would make the photoblog sing! And most of the core functions are already in the template
Well, yes. As categories almost everything here is already there. Because I still don't see much difference between an album and a category.

SusanG wrote:BELLS & WHISTLES (things to think about adding)

Kimberly's EXIF feature as a plugin
A lightbox plugin

*IMPORTANT* We need a better name then Photoblog :)
I agree on the name for the template, but for me if we ship with photo-related plugins I'd delete them immediately. Well, exif yeah but maybe not a lightbox plugin. Same as code-highlighter in a way: really cool to those who want that sort of thing, but I reckon a majority of installs wouldn't see the value in it. Bit of a tightrope there eh? Thin down core to enough that it can do cool stuff, but not so much that people have to go hunting for the bits they want.
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Re: photoblogging albums

Postby EdB » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:27 pm

Let me see if I can figure out the similarities and diffs between an album and a category.

Similarities:
  • They are part of a blog, meaning feeds (out of the box) will ignore all factors other than time and visibility when packaging content. Heck the traditional multipost page will do the same: content is displayed based on time and visibility, and in some cases item type (intro, featured).
  • You can have text.
  • You can attach an image.
  • You must have a "category" selected.
  • You might be able to have sub-categories selected.
  • You might be able to cross-post across multiple blogs via sub-categories.
  • You may choose to add tags to each item without creating the tag in advance.
  • A visitor can view a list of items filtered by cat/album.

Differences:
  • A category does not generate a folder somewhere in /media/, an album would like to have that.
  • BUT not every category created in a photoblog would like to have it's own media folder.
  • A category can't display thumbnails from images attached to items in the category, an album needs to do that.
  • A category is called "category", an album would like to be called "album".
  • A category can have sub-categories and items can be posted without restriction on how many cats are used, an album ... might be the same but might not.

hmmm... I think maybe I'm getting something figured out in my head. I *think* an album would be basically a step between a blog and a category. In other words, the an album organizes cats in a blog AND creates a media path AND has a mechanism by which attached image thumbs can be seen on one page.

Am I close?

Off topic Not really OT but we don't have a box for "marginally related"... The thing is getting terminology understood between clans. The "love me some camera action" clan is trying to talk to the "code is king" clan and there is no translator. So understanding what the photobloggers wants means hearing terms they see as obvious, and understanding what the coders are saying means understanding terms the way the code sees them. Hell core uses collection or blog for blog, and chapter or category for category. It's all the same to me because I see them as functional entites no matter what they're called. Thus, to me this "album" thing sounds a hell of a lot like a "chapter". Oh wait I meant "category"...
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Re: photoblogging albums

Postby Kimberly » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:01 pm

OK, I am skipping over the posts here as there is just too much in them.

Albums are just folders on the server. The name of the folder is the name of the Album. That is the way it works in zenPhoto (OT: probably one of the best photo only app out there, gallery 2 sucks). This is where a mass uploader would be nice, working with camera images where you could have it to resize the images down for the humongous camera images. Anyway, to create the albums on the page, you can pull the first image in the folder, create a thumbnail and under the image have the folder name. The album would be a link to the folder and then you would create a thumbnail for each image and display it on the page with x number shown with a next page button.

Now, the thing is, we don't want to write a zenPhoto application. Photoblogging is not necessarily doing what a programme like zenPhoto does. Usually it is showcasing a photo or two with commentary. The only thing I see that would be nice would be an EXIF extractor plugin that could be a rendering plugin (some thought would be needed on how you pass which photo.) or could be blog wide where each photo always shows the EXIF beside, or under, etc the photo. EXIF is nice for other photographers visiting that wants to know the f-stop, or what have you. The other is the use of fancybox (my choice and I reviewed a ton of them; I like the use of id and classes and you can use some of the other parts of the anchor tag as well) to handle opening the larger image if the blogger wants it,

Albums could add some to the photoblog, but if one wants something like zenPhoto, then why not use zenPhoto; you can always just include a link to your zenPhoto site in your menu and with careful use of the template the visitor won't even know.
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Re: photoblogging albums

Postby Kimberly » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:10 pm

Basically, folders would use a mini version of the file manager, designed to just display the folders, clicking on the folder/album then opens up a view to that folder with thumbnails. Clicking on one of the thumbnails would then open up the image. the only thing would be that the number of thumbnails would need to be limited with next and previous buttons, otherwise you could just let the whole folder be on the same page and one can scroll down the page even if 200 images are listed.

In my opinion, I would just use a dedicated photography app instead of QP.
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Re: photoblogging albums

Postby EdB » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:47 pm

Sometimes I wish my brain worked in a much more linear fashion.

Currently hip-deep in "awesome blog creator", created categories now applying them to sample posts. Such fun eh?

Somehow that got me thinking of albums as cats with special magical properties, like the ability to be a cat that can't be used as a main cat or subcat. And somehow that got me thinking of shadow cats. I say "somehow" because I can't articulate why I think the two things are related, which is ... <sigh> normal for me. But that's what it is. It is categorization of items for a purpose other than that which the word "category" is applied internally.

So dig this. Suppose designating something a "photoblog" activated a feature that currently does not exist but added a new block to the write page sidebar for "Albums". Much the same as activating "workflow" adds a new block to the write page main column, or how activating "advanced perms" adds 2 new subtabs to one of the submenus. It also adds a new table to keep track of albums kinda like how the T_categories table keeps track of categories. It also adds an option when in photoblog to put an image in an album, and maybe cross-posting across multiple albums kinda like how you can do with categories. It also gives a way to set a default album kinda like how we do with categories.

Then it does stuff categories don't do (finally). It also adds options to File Manager for "create a post per item and put them all in the default album". The biggie is that an album can be used on the mediaidx.php page to show only thumbs in an item ... AND we need to make sure we can do that with categories anyway.

IF this is a good place to go then maybe the default album should be the most recent one created? Or perhaps a "default for posting" and "default for displaying"?

Here is how it would work for *any* photoblogger. I have a bunch of really shitty pics of my summer vacation. SusanG has a lot of stunning pics logically grouped by some thing that photographers care about. We both create a new album, it becomes the default album (for uploading) and creates a media/blogs/id_X/album_name path. We both upload them and do the meta-data bits, but I'm lazy and upload them to media/blogs/id_X but SusanG uploads to media/blogs/id_X/album_name. We both select all the images we just uploaded. For Susan it is easier because of the "select all" box but I'm just an idiot with a camera who doesn't understand complex shit so I click one by one. We both select "make a post per item in the default album". Blammo. Instant album. We can edit our posts now and categorize or tag as we see fit, eventually publishing these posts.

Me? I'm not even in a photoblog - all these items are in a "regular" blog with that new feature enabled. My template doesn't support displaying thumbs so there you go. Susan OTOH has a template seriously geared towards photoblogging. Her template is smart enough to display all thumbs or thumbs by album or thumbs by cat, and can change the overall look of the page based on albums. So permalinks in her "silhouettes in black and white" album use that particular look and feel, but her "disruptive nature" album permalinks have a very different look. Or maybe not. The idea being we can style based on album which by the way we can do with categories but whatever.

Where was I? Oh yeah: I can now install categories from an external file but I can't cross-post to more than one additional category and I use a subcat from a different blog. Not that big a concern as core does not do that, but honestly this new awesome blog creation tool needs to support more than just what core does now.

Kimberly wrote:OK, I am skipping over the posts here as there is just too much in them ...
Then you don't mind if I ignore what you wrote?
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Re: photoblogging albums

Postby Kimberly » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:59 am

EdB wrote:
Kimberly wrote:OK, I am skipping over the posts here as there is just too much in them ...
Then you don't mind if I ignore what you wrote?


Well Ed I guess you are free to do whatever you want. However, what I meant was there was too much to quote, so instead of quoting all the things I read, I just gave my input. First you say it is too much to add a lightbox plugin as one of the shipping plugin to allow that feature to exist for the photoblogging without a user having to go out and hunt up a plugin for it, and now you want to add all this extra code for an album feature. However, as you point out, you are free to add tons of code to the core if you want to.
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Re: photoblogging albums

Postby Kimberly » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 am

And what happen to QP being a team effort where any new feature is first discussed and then a yes or no consensus on adding the feature is reached before a branch is created and a merge is requested?
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Re: photoblogging albums

Postby EdB » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:29 am

Kimberly wrote:First you say it is too much to add a lightbox plugin as one of the shipping plugin to allow that feature to exist for the photoblogging without a user having to go out and hunt up a plugin for it, and now you want to add all this extra code for an album feature. However, as you point out, you are free to add tons of code to the core if you want to.

Wrong on all fucking counts.
Kimberly wrote:First you say it is too much to add a lightbox plugin as one of the shipping plugin to allow that feature to exist for the photoblogging without a user having to go out and hunt up a plugin for it

I said MY OPINION is that it should not be part of core. Fuck you for assuming my opinion is holy law when you don't like it.
Kimberly wrote: and now you want to add all this extra code for an album feature.
Fuck you no I do not. I simply have no idea WHAT PEOPLE MEAN BY IT SHOULD HAVE ALBUMS!!!! Jesus fucking christ how many times do I have to say the same god damned thing? A fucking category is a fucking album, so OBVIOUSLY I don't understand what people who want it mean by it, so OBVIOUSLY I have to ask what they mean. There is not one fucking red cent worth of code laid down anywhere towards this goal because the goal hasn't been identified and until that happens there can't be any meaningful discussion about if it even needs to be there.
Kimberly wrote:However, as you point out, you are free to add tons of code to the core if you want to.
Can you show me one instance where I said I am free to add tons of code to the core if I want to?

Kimberly wrote:And what happen to QP being a team effort where any new feature is first discussed and then a yes or no consensus on adding the feature is reached before a branch is created and a merge is requested?
What in the bloody fucking hell do you think me asking "is this what you mean" and "does this sound good" amount to?

Fuck you. Write your own god damned code.
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