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templates from that other app

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Re: templates from that other app

Postby EdB » Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:14 pm

No problems other than it is what we want and is it flexible enough for the future. I'm also thinking maybe a UL that always shows the releases, and if there is no link then it says the same thing unlinked. That way future templates look the same as past templates except for some stuff isn't linked.

I am in two minds as to whether we need to cater for the edge cases where someone who knows enough to delete the templates would also install the sample content. If they do then they would probably know enough to pop over to the admin and re-assign the blog to a different template. Also what happens if I delete all the templates and install the sample content? Not sure about this one really. Just thinking out loud.
I do that, but I don't do it with no template. It's just frustrating is all. Plus if you have canned widgets then you lost those when installer did it's job. But anyway I shouldn't be even doing that much but we've no way to install canned blogs without canned content so I should probably just eat the time it takes to create the blogs. Or work more on a cool future.

Not sure how long it would take to do the "read a file" thing. Honestly it doesn't sound hard. dunno. Worth looking at though eh?
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Re: templates from that other app

Postby Kimberly » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:16 am

I was never crazy about the templates in that other app. I mentioned about a backend template editor but never did anything with trying to get it going.

The biggest thing about a template is the design, the eye candy, as that is what you really noticed and is what pops out at the visitor. After the eye candy, what is the kind of things that should be consider for a template?
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Re: templates from that other app

Postby EdB » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:49 am

EdB wrote:Anyway we got a few templates that are unique so maybe we got enough to go with? All I care about is that we be smart about it. Meaning each one should have a really smart thing it highlights so we can you know say "look at that one for that type of thing". For example the current photoblog has the only custom widgets.

I totally agree that templates should be eye-catching, but personally I don't give a crap as long as they actually internally are fundamentally valuable in terms of pointing someone to them as a reference tool.

There are quite a few canned templates that have settings each installation can dial in. I can actually make "nifty_colors" that would allow the same template to be any of the 4 current "nifty_something" templates, but they're old. They probably don't have support for the stupid "intro-type" posts and probably don't do anything with that damnable checkbox feature that ought to be an intro but isn't. I forget what it is called because I always comment out that portion of the write page.

We have ONE template that decides it's own widgets, and whatever we use for canned blog #4 ought to do the exact same widgets.

Some templates ... heck MOST templates probably still link an image to itself in a browser window. BORING! We can use our templates to showcase various bits, like one that links canned images to a popup of itself and another than links to the item's permalink.

That's what I'm into: using the templates we supply as really good samples of what QP can do besides look pretty.

BUT yes you're right: they do have to look good. I am NOT the guy to have anything to do with that though :)
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Re: templates from that other app

Postby Kimberly » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:50 am

I think I am beginning to understand. So I create a template for photoblogging that automatically does all the bits and pieces that make a nice photo display, EXIF data displayed beside the image and clicking on the small images brings up a larger resolution scaled to fit the page in a lightbox. So the template loads in the widget or plugin that is needed? I do all that manually but the template can also do it?
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Re: templates from that other app

Postby EdB » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:31 am

Well, pretty close except I'll pick on one term you used.

First off yes a template can say "use these widgets in those containers" instead of everybody getting the core's canned ideas of widgets. Ever wonder why every time you create a new blog it gets stupid widgets in containers that don't exist in your chosen template? Because the template didn't tell it what goes where :) NOW a template author can name a container "Bob" and put whatever widgets the author thinks belongs in it.

The word I'll pick on is "plugin". The template can say "put the calendar widget over here" but it can not force you to have the calendar plugin installed. I haven't tested this, but I think all that will happen is the widgets page will say "uninstalled widget" or something like that.

Related to that is the idea of dependency. A plugin can state dependencies. For example "needs CURL" or some such. I do not think a template can say "needs calendar plugin". That would be a rather awesome feature though eh? So in your example, a cool photoblog template designed with an awesome exif plugin in mind should be able to say "you do not have the exif plugin installed so you suck". Heck it should have a stepped response. "you are missing out because you don't have foo" and "I refuse to install because you don't have foo".

Do an installation of the nightly snapshot and you'll see how photoblog has it's own widgets. Then check out the template.class file in that template and you'll see the code that does it. Way cool - came from Yabs but he never really dialed it in.
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Re: templates from that other app

Postby Laibcoms » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:49 am

EdB wrote:Well, pretty close except I'll pick on one term you used.

First off yes a template can say "use these widgets in those containers" instead of everybody getting the core's canned ideas of widgets. Ever wonder why every time you create a new blog it gets stupid widgets in containers that don't exist in your chosen template? Because the template didn't tell it what goes where :) NOW a template author can name a container "Bob" and put whatever widgets the author thinks belongs in it.

The word I'll pick on is "plugin". The template can say "put the calendar widget over here" but it can not force you to have the calendar plugin installed. I haven't tested this, but I think all that will happen is the widgets page will say "uninstalled widget" or something like that.

Related to that is the idea of dependency. A plugin can state dependencies. For example "needs CURL" or some such. I do not think a template can say "needs calendar plugin". That would be a rather awesome feature though eh? So in your example, a cool photoblog template designed with an awesome exif plugin in mind should be able to say "you do not have the exif plugin installed so you suck". Heck it should have a stepped response. "you are missing out because you don't have foo" and "I refuse to install because you don't have foo".

Do an installation of the nightly snapshot and you'll see how photoblog has it's own widgets. Then check out the template.class file in that template and you'll see the code that does it. Way cool - came from Yabs but he never really dialed it in.


Ooh, I like that.

Yep, the template can only mark/suggest it but not install a plugin - unless it's an exclusive plugin, or a plugin that the template heavily relies on to make the template look like it should be(??) - say those "newspaper" type layouts we see a lot with a sliding flash-like "latest news".

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Re: templates from that other app

Postby SusanG » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:41 pm

Every new User is an idiot! Speaking about me at least! I wouldn't cut things down so much to the bone that what's left is not muscled but anorexic! Content creators see things differently. IOW ... they like variety and pretty things. Very few are going to want to customise or create their own template in the beginning: too much other stuff to learn! But they are going to love the freedom to bollix things up when they do get around to it.

I'm planning on designing some new templates that will be QP's but that will take time. The main one I want to get my teeth into is the Photoblog. Add some function via creating albums rather then just an index page of all uploaded images. Then create a few versions that have different layouts and WOOT! We have something that compares to Tumblr but better because ... the User can bollix it up :)
say goodnight Gracie!
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Re: templates from that other app

Postby EdB » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:22 pm

So you're in favor of more than just bare-bones? Right now we ship with 20 templates (15 for visitors, 4 for feeds, sitemap). So far it looks like that would drop to 7 (4 for visitors, 2 for feeds, sitemap) - which technically isn't minimum but that's where we're at right now. What numbers do you think would be more better for when people first install QP?
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Re: templates from that other app

Postby leeturner » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:54 pm

SusanG wrote:Every new User is an idiot! Speaking about me at least! I wouldn't cut things down so much to the bone that what's left is not muscled but anorexic! Content creators see things differently. IOW ... they like variety and pretty things. Very few are going to want to customise or create their own template in the beginning: too much other stuff to learn! But they are going to love the freedom to bollix things up when they do get around to it.


This isn't about new users creating their own templates. This is about cutting back on the number that get installed with the core (currently just enough for the sample content blogs) and then providing the rest (and any future templates) on the QP templates site.
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Re: templates from that other app

Postby SusanG » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:52 pm

leeturner wrote:This isn't about new users creating their own templates.


In a way, it is because

SusanG wrote:Very few are going to want to customise or create their own template in the beginning


Templates are a "made-up and waiting for a date" face ;)

Getting back to the core question, I would say keep at least 12

4 installed
4 add'l styles
4 for feeds / sitemaps
say goodnight Gracie!
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