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I haz forked ur project [b2evo fork notification]

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I haz forked ur project [b2evo fork notification]

Postby Tblue » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:19 pm

I think we should notify Francois (and the few other developers left) about our shiny new fork, just because we should be polite. So here's my draft which will be sent to the "evoteam" mailing list when it is finished.

-- snip --

Announcing Quam Plures, a b2evolution fork

Dear b2evolution developers!

You may already heard it, but if you didn't: We forked b2evolution and thought it would be nice to let you know.

You may have a few questions, for example: Why? The answer is relatively simple. We do not like the way b2evolution development has progressed in the last few months (or even years?):
- In our opinion, the core is getting bloated (e. g.: who needs avatars? Well, some people certainly do, but there already was a plugin which provided that functionality -- you still decided to make avatars a poorly implemented core feature). We want to make the core slimmer and build a modular application.
- b2evolution regularly sends non-anonymous statistics to b2evolution.net (a. k. a. evospy). There is not obvious way to turn that off, and the user is neither informed about this "feature" nor asked for permission.
- b2evolution places links back to b2evolution.net (that would be okay if it would be one link only) and fplanque.net/com all over the templates and the backoffice (a. k. a. linkspam). We understand that backlinks are necessary for FOSS, but in our opinion, one link (maybe even one per page) is enough.
- Not enough democracy: Users are not really involved in the development process. Core developers are, but even then, fplanque makes the final decisions (evospy, avatars...).
- Not enough transparency: This mailing list (evoteam) is not accessible to the public world, but we think FOSS projects need a transparent development process.

So, who are "we"? Currently, the following people are members of our core team (taken from Launchpad):
- Anne Verberckmoes (Topanga)
- EdB
- emin ozlem (tilqi)
- Foppe Hemminga (foppe)
- JC John Sese Cuneta (Laibcoms)
- Lee Turner
- stk
- Tilman Blumenbach (Tblue)
- Walter Cruz
- Yabs

And what did we fork? b2evolution, duh. Seriously, we based our fork on b2evolution 3.3.3-dev (pre-release).

What about the name? "Quam Plures" is Latin and means "As many as possible" (no, not as many core features as possible... Rather it is supposed to mean "As many transparency as possible").

Want to get some more information? Our code is at Launchpad ( https://launchpad.net/quam-plures ), our forums are at http://forums.quamplures.net and our preliminary website is at http://quamplures.net .

We still owe you thanks, though -- b2evolution once was a great product and most of its code is great, too! Francois Planque and the other developers did good work. Finally, we do not want to start a "war" -- on the contrary, we hope that both projects can profit from each other.

Sincerely yours,

The Quam Plures developers

--snap--

My English is not perfect, I am well aware of that. I may also have missed some things, or the letter could not sound polite at all. What do you think?
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Re: I haz forked ur project [b2evo fork notification]

Postby EdB » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:02 am

Real quick reply cuz I gotta go see a cute blond who has my clothes, but real quick I've been putting "thanks to Francois and b2evo for stuff" into plugin readmes because it is the right thing to do. Blueyed too for plugins with his name on them.

Back on track though: it does come off more as a gripe list than a forward-looking statement. Hard to say "why" without saying "because your spam-laden bloated spyware limits the 'open' part of open source to who can use it you friggin egomaniac" I guess.

More politely, and I'm really in a hurry so excuse me, but more politely we might want to lead with appreciation and a recognition for what was once a rather awesome product. Then when closing don't mention multiple cores but go with transparency and 'as many inputs as want to be heard' type of thing. In other words it'd be "hi, good words of thanks, negative list of reasons, positive list of our values, lets be friends, bye".
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Re: I haz forked ur project [b2evo fork notification]

Postby Tblue » Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:35 pm

Thanks for the feedback. Another try:

--- snip ---

Announcing Quam Plures, a b2evolution fork

Dear b2evolution developers!

b2evolution once was a great product with (mostly) great code. Francois Planque and all the other developers truly deserve credit for developing such an application.

This is not the only thing we want to say in this email, as you may have guessed from the subject. Here are the news:

We forked b2evolution!
Our fork is named "Quam Plures" (or simply QP), which means "As many as possible". More information about QP is (or rather will be) available from http://quamplures.net . Since there is no real content at this URL, you might want to look at our forums where you can read our development plans: http://forums.quamplures.net . Finally, our code is hosted at Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/quam-plures . The code is based on b2evolution 3.3.3-dev (pre-release).

So, why exactly did we decide to create a fork and who are we?

We do not like the way b2evolution development has progressed in the last few months (or even years?):
  • In our opinion, the core is getting bloated (e. g.: who needs avatars? Well, some people certainly do, but there already was a plugin which provided that functionality -- you still decided to make avatars a poorly (!) implemented core feature). We want to make the core slimmer and build a modular application.
  • b2evolution regularly sends non-anonymous statistics to b2evolution.net ("evospy"). There is not obvious way to turn that off, and the user is neither informed about this "feature" nor asked for permission.
  • b2evolution places links back to b2evolution.net and fplanque.net/com all over the templates and the backoffice (a. k. a. linkspam). We understand that backlinks are necessary for FOSS, but in our opinion, one link (maybe even one per page) to the project site is enough.
  • Not enough democracy: Users are not really involved in the development process. Core developers are, but even then, fplanque makes the final decisions (evospy, avatars...). Of course every project needs leadership, but it still can be "democratized". No decision can be made by only one person, the entire core team has to be asked (the only exception may be security vulnerabilities).
  • Not enough transparency: This mailing list (evoteam) is not accessible to the public world, but we think FOSS projects need a transparent development process.

The last two points of this list are reflected by our project's name.

Our core team currently consists of the following people:
  • Anne Verberckmoes (Topanga)
  • EdB
  • emin ozlem (tilqi)
  • Foppe Hemminga (foppe)
  • JC John Sese Cuneta (Laibcoms)
  • Lee Turner
  • stk
  • Tilman Blumenbach (Tblue)
  • Walter Cruz
  • Yabs

That's it -- we just thought it would be polite to inform you about our fork. Please note that we do not want to start a "war"; on the contrary, we hope that both projects can profit from each other -- even if our aims differ.

Sincerely yours,

The Quam Plures developers

--- snap ---

Well, the list still is there, but -- as you said -- when we say "we forked b2evo", we have to give reasons.
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Re: I haz forked ur project [b2evo fork notification]

Postby EdB » Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:30 pm

I like it. Much better than where I would go with it
Hey Francois.

What's up. Been a while eh? You're a smart man and a pleasure to know, but your shit stinks so bad it makes me want to puke. And I'm not alone. A bunch of us forked it. hit quamplures.net and work it out from there okay?

  • Footer spam always sucked. You never got that message did you? That was the first thing we killed.
  • Spyware is fucking evil. Again you're so full of yourself you think you can because you can. Second thing killed.
  • BTW we're still pulling more friggin linkbacks out of our core than you can shake a stick at. What a joke.
  • YOUR tightly controlled widgets are now open to the world to add to or subtract from.
  • Half of your ranting like a madman in comments is gone as well. Grow up dude. You sound like me in there.
  • The crap you stuck in your core is fine - for you. Ain't fine for most folk though.
    • Like avatars. Not good enough to have multiple plugins that did a pretty good job of using your hooks was it? No friggin way ya damned control freak. Instead you had to shove in a half-baked lame little mandatory POS avatar thing. Whatever. It's gone.
    • Linking an attached image to the original is fine, unless you don't want that AND never had that. But hey you get to decide what everyone's web will do right? Upgrade now and get all kinds of shit you simply don't want and no help getting things back where they were. Nice plan. We're not going there.
    • Holy crap just thinking of this list makes me think of so much more we need to fix. We should have done this a year earlier so we'd have less to fix now. Damn.

Open Source means more than just "someone else can use the code you wrote". It means being open about what it does and how it does it. It means letting the actual owner take ownership by getting involved in the development process. It means respecting those who offer an opinion different from ours. It means knowing that the actual owner isn't one guy behind the development. The user is the owner. We get that.

Better get a real job cuz your shit's gonna sink fast.

Love ya, EdB


LORD but I do love a good rant :)

I need to work on that :|

It ain't cool :(
EdB
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Re: I haz forked ur project [b2evo fork notification]

Postby Tblue » Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:52 pm

Hah, I nearly loughed out loud when I read the first sentences. :D Very direct, indeed.
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Re: I haz forked ur project [b2evo fork notification]

Postby Yabs » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:02 pm

Dear FG,
Thanks for showing me how code should be written, and introducing me to php, much smoother learning curve than asp.net, that was a bitch that only magento can rival.

I've spent years trying to talk to you, seems like I wasn't alone.

So long, and thanks for all the fish ;)

Hic sunt dracones ... lets hope we do a better job ;)

¥
I may have opened the door but you entered of your own free will

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Re: I haz forked ur project [b2evo fork notification]

Postby stk » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:38 pm

Gentlemen, ladies and (maybe) drag queens,

While I respect your right to do as you like and personally love EdB's direct message, it would seem to me that we've spent too long trying to communicate with the FFG. While I understand his position on making the last decision (gotta love his "I am King" post, which IMHO ought to be a sticky on the forums under "So you're thinking of using b2evolution"), he really doesn't "get it". So why waste our breath?

Perhaps it might be better to "talk" to the FFG indirectly? By this I mean, why not draft this to the Quam Plures audience, instead of someone who has already demonstrated a complete disregard for our collective ideas and thoughts? Kind of a ... "about us" page, which we discuss why we forked b2evolution.

The FFG, although a French egomaniac, is intelligent and knows how to use Google. If he's ever interested in wondering why so many of his loyal users have gone AWOL from his little army of minions, he might actually search for the reason and then find Quam Plures (among other things).

Anyway ... my Canadian 2c, which is now actually as much as an American 2c, but only half as much as a UK 2c.

(Thanks for the giggles EdB!)

-stk
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Re: I haz forked ur project [b2evo fork notification]

Postby EdB » Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:52 am

stk wrote:... snip ...
(Thanks for the giggles EdB!)

-stk


You are very welcome :) Reckon I owed you a post worth reading eh?
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Re: I haz forked ur project [b2evo fork notification]

Postby stk » Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:56 am

PS - You're looking very dapper these days Ed! :-)
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Re: I haz forked ur project [b2evo fork notification]

Postby Tblue » Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:27 pm

Wouldn't another possibility be to publish the letter on our website and send it to evoteam?
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