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my "generational" dreams

The future of this project but not in a "I want a pony" sort of way. This is all about everything meta about Quam Plures. The general direction, the support tools, stuff like that.

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my "generational" dreams

Postby EdB » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:08 pm

when I finish getting qp5 into this app I'll call it the same version number qp5 was at, which is 1.something. To my way of thinking, the first number is kinda generational, so here's what I have been thinking about for that. Sometimes there would be a lot of little steps leading up to a generational change, so I stopped assuming I'd have 1.2 then 1.3 and so on up to 2.0 - started doing 1.42 then 1.44 and so on. Anyway these are kinda in order, but not certainly for sure or anything ...

2 will be migrating to almost exclusively html5 templates. That will entail removing all the default $params bits that make templates, then figuring out what the best would be for html5 templates and tags. When my current source of html5 templates went dark for a while I found http://html5up.net/ which builds templates on http://n33.co/5grid/ which would seriously require getting rid of all the core divs. BTW my first source was http://freehtml5templates.com/ which is now back. I liked what I saw there, but ya gotta look at the licensing requirements a bit more carefully.

3 will be complete overhaul of the permissions model. Basically completely tossing what we have and how we interact with it in favor of what I described in viewtopic.php?p=9118#p9118 . That'll be a lot of hard work to get to because it doesn't exist at all yet, but every situation I've had in reality and have in my head the permissions are something I have to work around. It is both too deep and too shallow at the same time.

4 will be something I've no idea of what though :)
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Re: my "generational" dreams

Postby leeturner » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:51 am

All sounds good

EdB wrote:2 will be migrating to almost exclusively html5 templates. That will entail removing all the default $params bits that make templates, then figuring out what the best would be for html5 templates and tags. When my current source of html5 templates went dark for a while I found http://html5up.net/ which builds templates on http://n33.co/5grid/ which would seriously require getting rid of all the core divs. BTW my first source was http://freehtml5templates.com/ which is now back. I liked what I saw there, but ya gotta look at the licensing requirements a bit more carefully.


Had a quick look at http://html5up.net/ and they look awesome. It would be seriously cool to get some of those in the mix
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Re: my "generational" dreams

Postby EdB » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:57 pm

Haven't gone there yet. First is this monstrous project called monster :)

The hard part will be getting all our canned divs out and into the templates so we can put html5-friendly stuff in. Core after monster will have an html5 option for templates. In fact 3 of 4 sample templates are html5. Bummer is that there is still tons of divitis stuff inside core. In my mind the issues are related: html5 does make "cleaner source code" but not if you keep falling back on "add a div and style it" stuff. The options should be there, but the default should be "none" IMHO.
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Re: my "generational" dreams

Postby leeturner » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:10 pm

Yeah, I agree
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Re: my "generational" dreams

Postby Kimberly » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:03 am

EdB wrote:
3 will be complete overhaul of the permissions model. Basically completely tossing what we have and how we interact with it in favor of what I described in viewtopic.php?p=9118#p9118 . That'll be a lot of hard work to get to because it doesn't exist at all yet, but every situation I've had in reality and have in my head the permissions are something I have to work around. It is both too deep and too shallow at the same time.


We still had the carry over of the number level permission thing in QP as well; it was deprecated but still in the code.
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Re: my "generational" dreams

Postby Kimberly » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:22 am

OK, you are going to have to explain HTML5 templates as I don't understand. HTML5 has divisions and they are still the basic building block of a page.

<div class="pretty">

__content__

</div>

OK, the __content__ is borrowed from Boonex Dolphin, the application I have been working with. That would create a division styled by the class "pretty" and inside the division would be loaded the "content" of the page
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Re: my "generational" dreams

Postby EdB » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:53 am

html5 is quite different, although you could still have a page built almost entirely with divs. In truth, not using divs would be a strange goal to try to reach ... but using a shedload less is easy.

Off the top of my head now, but the three biggest new elements are, effectively, named divs: header, article, footer. A page - obviously - can have a header and a footer, but so can what we call a blog post. So the multipage post has a header followed by a div containing several articles then followed by a footer. Each article can have it's own header and footer too, which we currently do with divs. There is also a new element called aside, which yeah it's basically another pre-named div, but it really does help mentally organize what the page layout is all about. Oh and there's an element called either nav or navigation. Most of these are kinda obvious by their title right?

Some really simple shit goes on in the head section of the page too. No more of that super-long uri/dtd/schema/whatever all that crap was in the HTML tag - it's just gone in html5 :) For javascripts and styles you don't have to declare a "type" anymore - the most common scripting element is javascript so it is assumed. For styles I'm not sure there even is another type beyond css so it too is assumed.
xhtml way:
Code: Select all
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="style.css" media="screen" />
<script type="text/javascript" src="http://localhost/a_upload_files/qp_rsc/js/jquery.min.js"></script>
html5 way:
Code: Select all
<link rel="stylesheet" href="style.css" media="screen" />
<script src="http://localhost/qp5_monster/qp_rsc/js/jquery.min.js"></script>


There's a few other basic fundamental changes too, which core in monster branch takes care of based on the template type being displayed. BTW the admin side is still good old fashioned xhtml :)

When actually building a template, it took me a while but I finally found joy in using the html5 way. It actually develops a "cleaner" end result ... even if it is the same ugly-ass website.

There's nothing magical about it. A few new shiny things to marvel over, but basically all "they" did was look at shedloads of websites and ask "how come everyone has a tag for "div class=header" and couldn't we just have a header element so that even the browser itself ... and search engines and the entire weboverse can understand what it means with regard to the page"?

I'll find some links for ya when I can. Meanwhile there's a fairly nice png and pdf attached here that I found online and thought enough of to grab a copy of :)
Attachments
h5d-sectioning-flowchart.png
h5d-sectioning-flowchart.png (68.4 KiB) Viewed 8170 times
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Re: my "generational" dreams

Postby Kimberly » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:21 pm

Thanks, will start looking at this then.
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Re: my "generational" dreams

Postby Kimberly » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:33 pm

Here is one thing I liked about templates on Dolphin; it has been a while since I built a template on QP so I need to go back and look at what we have now.

In Dolphin there is a base template. Then if you want to write a new template, you only include the things from the base template that you want to change. For example, if you want to change some classes in the base template common.css file, then you can either include the whole common.css in your template, or you can use @import and then add your changes; of course we have talked about @import removal. If a reference is to a class in say general.css that is not in your template, then the class is pulled from the base template. The same for template files; say if you want to only change the navigation_menu.html and not the sub_menu.html parts of the template, then you only include navigation_menu.html in your template. sub_menu.html will be pulled from the base template.
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Re: my "generational" dreams

Postby leeturner » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:36 pm

I think that is how they work in Wordpress also.
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