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template=_sitemap is "blog-only"

Not like "it smells funny when I click that". This is for bugs that don't show an error but something just doesn't seem right or ends up doing something you think is wrong. It doesn't show you an error but you know something ain't right.

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template=_sitemap is "blog-only"

Postby Laibcoms » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:29 am

I'm not sure if this is a bug in the sense that the other template= functions takes into account the "aggregate blog" setting. The difference is that, for template=_sitemap, it doesn't work like the rest.

It's not a bug if it was intentionally designed that way, but this is something that was carried over from the other one.

Personally, I choose over to have template=_sitemap to take into account the "aggregate blog" setting, especially useful for setups wherein there is an aggregate-only blog (which is empty in and of itself).

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Filed here with Importance set to low: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/quam-plures/+bug/636254
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Re: template=_sitemap is "blog-only"

Postby Yabs » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:45 pm

Personally I'd expect sitemap to respect aggregate blog settings

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Re: template=_sitemap is "blog-only"

Postby EdB » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:36 pm

Code: Select all
# We want to include all posts, even those not primarily linked to blog #1
# i-e even those aggregated through an extra cat:
$cat_focus = 'wide';
From sitemap_blog.php but this touches on a couple of things. First it seems silly to include that particular template via the "put the feed links on my blog" widget. Second it seems silly to show bloggers feed templates when they are selecting a template for their blog. Third I'm not even sure how to use that particular stub/template but I seem to recall it goes in your .htaccess or maybe robots.txt file so search engines can get a sitemap. Or maybe it was only to humor google? Or maybe you gotta do something special for each search engine?

I guess I should try to learn via the web, but it would be nice if all we needed was a meta tag for sitemap.

ANYWAY this seems like a good case for both a fix and a template.class deal to cover that $cat_focus thing.

Edit edit: only sitemap is shown as a selectable template for a blog. not sure why that would be since it really isn't a display format or a feed. Well, sort of a feed but not really.
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Re: template=_sitemap is "blog-only"

Postby Laibcoms » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:47 pm

In a way that is true, the "modern" sitemap is for search bots only not for public consuming. But I prior to that, a sitemap was a vital part of any website for public consuming, not for search engine bots. One word, two definitions, with two different display/view. The one we have is for the bots so I agree in that it shouldn't be in the "put the feed links on my blog" widget.

The second point: Maybe everything with an underscore prefix should be hidden from the template selection? _atom, _rss, _rss2 also shows up like _sitemap.

Going back to _sitemap, maybe we can remove it? I'm not entirely sure if there is still use for it since Google and Yahoo now considers Atom/RSS feeds as sitemap too. It's like a sort-of standard these search giants created but quietly faded out of use because of the changes they themselves introduced in how they index websites. Not to mention how social media changed everything.

From what I can remember, the "search engine" sitemap version was only intended for faster indexing by search bots, and [2] removes the need for website owners to create a search engine friendly template. But then again, they're reading feeds already so.. I dunno.
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Re: template=_sitemap is "blog-only"

Postby BushLeagueCritic » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:10 pm

Going back to _sitemap, maybe we can remove it? I'm not entirely sure if there is still use for it since Google and Yahoo now considers Atom/RSS feeds as sitemap too.


I would hesitate to remove it completely.
Removing it wouldn't be an issue for brand new installations, but users who are migrating from "that other app" may not realize it (or be puzzled) when their Google Webmaster Tools suddenly stop functioning. I ran into this problem when I was migrating my blog because the _sitemap template was not installed. Not a huge deal at all, but except for this... I would've had a seamless transition. I was so proud I'd thought of everything, too. ;)

If the _sitemap template is removed, the sitemap_a.php stub needs to be modified to point to one of the xml feed templates.
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Re: template=_sitemap is "blog-only"

Postby Tblue » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:55 pm

Sitemaps are neat because it is possible to:

  • tell the search engine how often it should check back for updates on a per-element basis
  • set priorities for elements (e. g. more comments => higher priority).

RSS/Atom feeds don't provide this information, so I would say sitemaps are still relevant. :-)
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Re: template=_sitemap is "blog-only"

Postby Yabs » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:25 pm

Sitemaps suck because :
  • You can't see your unlinked/orphaned pages
  • You do spiders work for them

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Re: template=_sitemap is "blog-only"

Postby Tblue » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:49 pm

Well, you don't have to use them, but for me they are useful. ;)
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Re: template=_sitemap is "blog-only"

Postby Laibcoms » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:56 am

Tblue wrote:Sitemaps are neat because it is possible to:

  • tell the search engine how often it should check back for updates on a per-element basis
  • set priorities for elements (e. g. more comments => higher priority).

RSS/Atom feeds don't provide this information, so I would say sitemaps are still relevant. :-)


Ahh, so it was sitemap that keeps a post "active" for SE bots.

Yes, keep it, lolz. But maybe we can remove the link to it in the widget since our sitemap is the one big brother Google developed, not the classic sitemap popular years ago.
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Re: template=_sitemap is "blog-only"

Postby EdB » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:19 am

Some info on this topic: "sitemap the template" is considered 'normal' instead of 'feed' is why it shows up as an option for installation on a blog. THAT should be changed, but it isn't a feed so I dunno what to call it.

I know we're not supposed to do database changes, but I would honestly like to make 4 choices for the template's type: normal, feed, other (of which only sitemap really applies though a template for printing purposes would certainly be 'other'), and html5. At a minimum we should (a) make the type be 'feed' and (b) rename that template to 'se_sitemap' to help convey that it is not a sitemap one would click on to see a layout of all pages.

The idea of a displayable sitemap isn't out of the question, but that isn't really a template thing to me. It would be more of a "disp=sitemap" thing in my mind at this point in time.
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