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Publish Now/Save/Save & Edit

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Can you copy/paste the error message, or do a screenshot that shows what is wrong? If not maybe you've got a "you can sense it" bug.

Publish Now/Save/Save & Edit

Postby Kimberly » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:03 am

It is possible to lose a post by accidentally clicking away from the editor thinking that a post has been published when it has not. The backend will show the post as being published. This can occur by having certain flags not set, such as having a title required but not entering a title. Believe it or not, the human eyes tend to focus narrowly on a section of the screen when working and it is possible to miss the notice at the top of the page. The problem is that the application will contradict itself, telling me the post has been published and the warning simply states Please provide a title.

The steps involved are:

1. Write a post without a title (with the flag set that titles are required for posts)
2. Click the Publish Now button.

QP will return the warning message above the editor, but it will also remove the Publish Now button and mark the post as published. Below is a screenshot showing the warning message (which can be overlooked), the absence of the Publish Now Button and that visibility/Sharing has been set to published. Now of course a user familiar with the application will know that one moves away when a post is published, but a noob who is just starting out will not know this and she is told that the post was published.

Furthermore, one is able to move away from an unsaved post even though the person clicked on the save button. The warning message just states Please provide a title and one may assume that not having a title does not prevent the application from saving the post. in reality, that is the case and the user will lose the post contents entirely.

Now one would think that clicking on Save & Edit would produce similar results, that the post would not actually be saved. However, that is not the case at all, When a user clicks on Save & Edit, they are told the post has been created and in fact, it will be saved without a title even though the title required flag is set.
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Re: Publish Now/Save/Save & Edit

Postby Kimberly » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:57 am

I guess the first step is to determine how we want this to work. If the "title required" flag is set to true, do we still want to save out a post if a title is not provided and the user clicks on Publish Now or Save? Publish Now and Save will not save the post without a title and gives a warning "please provide a title", and Save & Edit will save out the post without a title. The warning is vague with the please; I would rather see something along the lines of, "A title is required before the post can be saved or published".
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Re: Publish Now/Save/Save & Edit

Postby EdB » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:29 am

I think "save" should do like "save and exit", and any attempt to publish published (or probably anything other than draft) would give a more clearer statement like "Item not saved due to no title provided".

Hey does the little pinkish star thingie show up in the title field when a title is required? If not it should, and if we come back with a "not saved no title" message the title field should be bolded or bordered or something.
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Re: Publish Now/Save/Save & Edit

Postby Kimberly » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:11 am

Yes, the star thing is there, very faint and I have voiced my opinion before on hard to see icons and notices before. And yes, the outline and message things do appear.

My guess with the publish now is that the script is doing the removal of the Published Now button and changing the visibility/status to published before it checks to see if there is a title. The fix there is to check for the title first before doing anything else. It is evident that the visibility/status change is backend only since it is not creating an entry in the database and saving the post.

I second that Save and Save & Edit should save the post even if there is no title. I often work on writing an article before establishing what the title will be. Furthermore, most titles in the publishing business are not created by the author of the article, but by the publisher/editor. If that same situation is in use by a publishing group working in QP, then they will have writers and publishers/editors and may want to work in a similar manner as in the print versions. A writer may write an article leaving the title blank. The article is then handed over to a copy editor who checks the article, and finally a publisher determines if the article should be published and then adds a title and hits the Publish Now button.
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Re: Publish Now/Save/Save & Edit

Postby EdB » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:29 am

Off topic Hey remember "a floated image with not much text after it gets the next item up where it doesn't belong"? I think most of those fixes suck. Gotta check, but clear:both usually pushes the main content below the sidebar and clear:left doesn't work if the image is floated right. Been working on all the other templates and sorta bumped up against that :(


The downside to more aggressive notifications of stuff is that after you know how stuff works then all you got is all this "in your face" stuff that no longer adds value. Thinking about the pink star thing. Not the actual "hey don't do that" messages.

ANYWAY I seem to recall us discussing this before. I'm onboard with the problems this title fiasco brings up in a group blog, especially with workflow and so forth. So a solution is kinda yeah we oughta do that.

Maybe if we save the item in all cases, except not "publish now" even if that is what they picked. Instead all save actions would save it BUT "publish now" would be a "save and edit" plus a "don't do that!" message that is more focused on "you did bad - don't do that!!!"

I wonder if we can disable "publish now" and enable it via javascript once a title is filled in? Assuming title is required obviously, but wow this would stop that bad thing from ever happening.

<hr /><hr /><hr /><hr /><hr /><hr /><hr /><hr /><hr /><hr /><hr /><hr /><hr /><hr /><hr /><hr /><hr /><hr /><hr />

Hey I also want to tie in how it only automagically generates a URL title once. Look at the sample case of a title being created by someone else after the article is written. If we kept track of "we did it" or "they did it" then any time we did the URL title we would always be willing to re-do it. So I start with a working title of "how I spent my summer vacation" and the editor changes it to "life in sheriff Joe's tent city". IF we knew we automagically made it the first time then we automagically correct it later on.

Personally I'm not into a checkbox putting the user in control since I don't actually see any value in it. Either we do it for them, or they take over simply by typing a URL title into the box. Once that happens it is in "they did it" mode, with the only exception of if they clear the field then save we go back to "we did it" mode and automagically generate again.
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Re: Publish Now/Save/Save & Edit

Postby Kimberly » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:18 am

I wonder if we can disable "publish now" and enable it via javascript once a title is filled in? Assuming title is required obviously, but wow this would stop that bad thing from ever happening.[/quote]

Now that is an idea. However, what if the user clicks the publish radio button in the Visibilty/sharing and then clicks Save. You would have to also disable that radio button as well.
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Re: Publish Now/Save/Save & Edit

Postby Kimberly » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:25 am

EdB wrote:Hey I also want to tie in how it only automagically generates a URL title once. Look at the sample case of a title being created by someone else after the article is written. If we kept track of "we did it" or "they did it" then any time we did the URL title we would always be willing to re-do it. So I start with a working title of "how I spent my summer vacation" and the editor changes it to "life in sheriff Joe's tent city". IF we knew we automagically made it the first time then we automagically correct it later on..


I am not sure I follow this. For one, I am still using b2 v2.4 for my main blog which is way outdated and does things differently. My other two blogs are using b2 v3.3.3 hacked and those two should be easily migrated to QP if I would just move my arse to do so. Once I start really using QP on a day to day basis, I would actually have better idea of how things are going. I am setting up a new mutli-blog site for someone using Quam Plures, and moved to the lastest development version to pick up the new image insertion routine only to run into a snag as I mentioned.
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Re: Publish Now/Save/Save & Edit

Postby EdB » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:00 am

Right now if you write a title "This is my TITLE" you get filled in to the 'URL title' field "this-is-my-title" although the dashes might be underscores. Any punctuation is also removed, so "This is my TITLE!!!" still becomes "this-is-my-title". That field is used when you link an item by title, but it is only created once in the entire life of an item and only if the field is originally left empty. In other words, it autogenerates the URL_title value once and only once even if there is no actual title provided. (In that case you get "title" or "title-1" or "title-2" to make it be a unique value.)

So I'm writing something with a "working title". Whatever that is will become the URL_title value (modified to lower case, dashes or underscores instead of spaces, and no punctuation) and QP will never change it even if I or someone else changes the item's title.

What I want to do is always be willing to update the URL_title if the actual title is changed. Thinking about it right now, we would only automagically create/update up until EITHER a human enters something into that field OR a human blanks out that field while editing AND the post is not 'published'. Once published it probably should be only editable by a human else we run the risk of actually trashing their inbound links.
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Re: Publish Now/Save/Save & Edit

Postby EdB » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:57 am

Kimberly wrote:I wonder if we can disable "publish now" and enable it via javascript once a title is filled in? Assuming title is required obviously, but wow this would stop that bad thing from ever happening.

Now that is an idea. However, what if the user clicks the publish radio button in the Visibilty/sharing and then clicks Save. You would have to also disable that radio button as well.

Great minds think alike cuz when you brought this back to life by linking it in the write page rebuild thread I got to thinking why don't we just kill the "publish now" button till it is valid. "Because of the stupid radio button" seems like one obstacle, but dig this: disable the textarea until something is in the title field.
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Re: Publish Now/Save/Save & Edit

Postby Kimberly » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:55 pm

EdB wrote:Great minds think alike cuz when you brought this back to life by linking it in the write page rebuild thread I got to thinking why don't we just kill the "publish now" button till it is valid. "Because of the stupid radio button" seems like one obstacle, but dig this: disable the textarea until something is in the title field.


I think you already did a branch on making the error message clearer to see. "Require Title" is switched on and off in the Blog Settings -> Features so if we disable the textarea it has to check that setting first.

Part of this problem was the order of the checks, it set the state of the radio buttons, and then removed the publish button before checking, to see if the title was present or not which then caused the confusion. You can save a post without a title and QP then assigns a number to the post to use in the URL.

Here is another thing that can might help to prevent this, we have the little red star, we could also make the background colour of the title field red if the blog settings has "Require Title" set and the title is blank. Might stare at the user a bit better than just the red star. A lot of time I write before deciding on a good title for the blog (of course one could just put letters in the title field in that case)

So red background on title field, change the order of the checks for publishing, And in my opinion, when the post is in draft mode, we should allow a save without title even if the "Required Title" flag is set. Especially so if one is in the writer -> editor -> publisher work flow model. :D
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